FINAL ROUND - Otsutsuki Kaguya (S) by Jadano

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FINAL ROUND - Otsutsuki Kaguya (S) by Jadano

Post: # 44949Post jadano
April 6, 2020 18:22:25

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Was thinking about Realms applying to enemies only or with doubled effects for enemies, would like to know your opinion as well. Thank you!
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Re: FINAL ROUND - Otsutsuki Kaguya (S) by Jadano

Post: # 46836Post Zank
April 12, 2020 7:11:27

You should cut a little bit of the width of the template so the character does not appear blurry in the post. You also seem to have a bunch of issues with your wording, because it seems to me like you are trying to cram in the text to fit the skillbox's length. I'm noticing how exactly each skill (besides the invulnerability) almost always fits the entire width of the skillbox. It might be due to how you set up the spacing, or it might just be a coincidence. But point is, there's a bunch of grammatical mistakes and redundancies in your wording, or overall the wording being unclear.

For example some grammatical mistakes: Kaguya one enemy into ash -> Kaguya turns one enemy into ash (You've forgotten the verb)
if their health drop below -> if their health drops below
all enemies and allies have cost of all skills -> have the cost of all skills

Some examples of you being redundant with your wording: Until game ends or until Kaguya (S) dies -> Until Kaguya (S) dies (Mentioning that part will not make the reader believe that the skill continues to be active in the next game. However, both parts are redundant. If Kaguya dies, that skill ends on her by default, and as a result, her skills won't be replaced anymore. So really, all you had to say is: Permanently, this skill is replaced by one of her additional skills (or Realms) at random each turn.)
(one active at a time) -> Just remove this part or expand on the explanation. I assume you meant that only one Realm can be active at a time, but it comes across as you saying, only one skill can replace the skill at a time , which is redundant.
Cannot be reflected back -> Cannot be reflected (A reflect by definition, reflects the skill back on the user. If a skill lets say would "reflect" a skill on a character other than Kaguya by changing the skill's target, that is not actually a reflect)
lava-filled lava realm -> lava-filled realm (The only point where you should add an additional noun there, would have been if you describe absolutely anything else other than lava)
Realm with a gravity force -> Realm with a strong gravitational force (Every realm and planet has a gravitational force. What you've described is the equivalent of "A man that breathes" or "Fire that burns")

There's many more things to find of the sort, but I'd rather not bombard you with all of them. The character can still be understood, but when there are so many, it starts to bother you. Let me focus on the things that might not be understood or make sense. When you say all allies and enemies, do you mean Kaguya too? If you don't, the wording is fine if you say Kaguya's allies and all enemies. If you do, you should say "every character" or "both teams". Also, the third skill is unclear. Is it permanent? The first effect sounds like it could last a single turn given the wording, but its not. Tell me if this accurately describes the skill: Permanently, each time a new enemy skill is used on Kaguya, she will ignore all enemy skills for 1 turn. Now, if she is meant to ignore the skill on the turn it is used, that wording is accurate. If she is meant to ignore the skill the turn afterwards, say "the turn afterwards" instead of "For 1 turn". Because if she ignores any skill on the first turn it is used on her, any character that has damaging skill not lasting more than a turn on her, cannot ever defeat her. And the second skill, how would it stack? If it would be used again, right? You didn't mean that each turn, their damage is decreased by 5 more, right? Hope not, because that skill can lead to a character dealing 0 damage, although really slowly.

As for her overall... I don't get why she gets a skill that grants her one additional chakra if all her skills cost only one energy. It might be useful during Gravity Realm, but that's quite situational, and a heavy advantage for her team, but not for herself. She doesn't really need that effect. Truth be told, she doesn't really need any effect, as her skills don't really help each other towards accomplishing any strategy. There's no synergy to them. They seem like effects created to fit the character as accurately as possible, but without much thought into how she can use them efficiently. They fit the way the game has been designed so far, in which each skill has a random assortment of effects that kind of fits the picture of the skill. So I'm not saying you're not on par on that front. But anyone can create a random assortment of numbers and effects without much effort. All you have to do is add some numbers there. But if it's just a random assortment of numbers, the character is boring to read and use, and all it comes down to evaluate it for is whether or not if it'd not ruin the game or whether or not the skillset fits what happened in the picture. But designs are made because of a game, first and foremost, so what really matters for the user experience is how the player uses the characters.

I also know that everyone can make their skillsets interesting from a gameplay perspective, with each skill being planned in a way the character can work towards a strategy. I'm not saying you can't both be accurate to the anime and give the player options to use their skills in order to accomplish said strategy. What I'm saying is that you're not asking yourself these questions: Does having this effect, help my other skills? If I use my character's skills together or in a certain order, does that help the character work towards a strategy? Do the effects I have in the character impact their other effects negatively? Even if my skills help each other, do they encourage the player to use their skills in a certain way? And other such questions of the sort. The way your character is made, I'd place any realm at random if it fits my team, use the third skill so Kaguya dies harder, and spam the second skill. Make her invulnerable when the situation calls for it. So all I'd do would be, use two skills just so they can be active, that being the first and third. Then one realm I'd randomly place based on the team I have and likely never change it. Spam the second skill forever. Unless Kaguya needs to go invulnerable. So all it comes down to, as a player, I have two options when using her after setting up the permanent skills. Deal damage. Or don't and become invulnerable IF that even benefits you. If I didn't, I'll just set them up and forget about them for the rest of the game. That's the efficient way to use them. But that's not a fun way to use them. You'd not think at all about what you are doing.
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Re: FINAL ROUND - Otsutsuki Kaguya (S) by Jadano

Post: # 46874Post jadano
April 12, 2020 12:43:11

Zank wrote:
April 12, 2020 7:11:27
You should cut a little bit of the width of the template so the character does not appear blurry in the post. You also seem to have a bunch of issues with your wording, because it seems to me like you are trying to cram in the text to fit the skillbox's length. I'm noticing how exactly each skill (besides the invulnerability) almost always fits the entire width of the skillbox. It might be due to how you set up the spacing, or it might just be a coincidence. But point is, there's a bunch of grammatical mistakes and redundancies in your wording, or overall the wording being unclear.

For example some grammatical mistakes: Kaguya one enemy into ash -> Kaguya turns one enemy into ash (You've forgotten the verb)
if their health drop below -> if their health drops below
all enemies and allies have cost of all skills -> have the cost of all skills

Some examples of you being redundant with your wording: Until game ends or until Kaguya (S) dies -> Until Kaguya (S) dies (Mentioning that part will not make the reader believe that the skill continues to be active in the next game. However, both parts are redundant. If Kaguya dies, that skill ends on her by default, and as a result, her skills won't be replaced anymore. So really, all you had to say is: Permanently, this skill is replaced by one of her additional skills (or Realms) at random each turn.)
(one active at a time) -> Just remove this part or expand on the explanation. I assume you meant that only one Realm can be active at a time, but it comes across as you saying, only one skill can replace the skill at a time , which is redundant.
Cannot be reflected back -> Cannot be reflected (A reflect by definition, reflects the skill back on the user. If a skill lets say would "reflect" a skill on a character other than Kaguya by changing the skill's target, that is not actually a reflect)
lava-filled lava realm -> lava-filled realm (The only point where you should add an additional noun there, would have been if you describe absolutely anything else other than lava)
Realm with a gravity force -> Realm with a strong gravitational force (Every realm and planet has a gravitational force. What you've described is the equivalent of "A man that breathes" or "Fire that burns")

There's many more things to find of the sort, but I'd rather not bombard you with all of them. The character can still be understood, but when there are so many, it starts to bother you. Let me focus on the things that might not be understood or make sense. When you say all allies and enemies, do you mean Kaguya too? If you don't, the wording is fine if you say Kaguya's allies and all enemies. If you do, you should say "every character" or "both teams". Also, the third skill is unclear. Is it permanent? The first effect sounds like it could last a single turn given the wording, but its not. Tell me if this accurately describes the skill: Permanently, each time a new enemy skill is used on Kaguya, she will ignore all enemy skills for 1 turn. Now, if she is meant to ignore the skill on the turn it is used, that wording is accurate. If she is meant to ignore the skill the turn afterwards, say "the turn afterwards" instead of "For 1 turn". Because if she ignores any skill on the first turn it is used on her, any character that has damaging skill not lasting more than a turn on her, cannot ever defeat her. And the second skill, how would it stack? If it would be used again, right? You didn't mean that each turn, their damage is decreased by 5 more, right? Hope not, because that skill can lead to a character dealing 0 damage, although really slowly.

As for her overall... I don't get why she gets a skill that grants her one additional chakra if all her skills cost only one energy. It might be useful during Gravity Realm, but that's quite situational, and a heavy advantage for her team, but not for herself. She doesn't really need that effect. Truth be told, she doesn't really need any effect, as her skills don't really help each other towards accomplishing any strategy. There's no synergy to them. They seem like effects created to fit the character as accurately as possible, but without much thought into how she can use them efficiently. They fit the way the game has been designed so far, in which each skill has a random assortment of effects that kind of fits the picture of the skill. So I'm not saying you're not on par on that front. But anyone can create a random assortment of numbers and effects without much effort. All you have to do is add some numbers there. But if it's just a random assortment of numbers, the character is boring to read and use, and all it comes down to evaluate it for is whether or not if it'd not ruin the game or whether or not the skillset fits what happened in the picture. But designs are made because of a game, first and foremost, so what really matters for the user experience is how the player uses the characters.

I also know that everyone can make their skillsets interesting from a gameplay perspective, with each skill being planned in a way the character can work towards a strategy. I'm not saying you can't both be accurate to the anime and give the player options to use their skills in order to accomplish said strategy. What I'm saying is that you're not asking yourself these questions: Does having this effect, help my other skills? If I use my character's skills together or in a certain order, does that help the character work towards a strategy? Do the effects I have in the character impact their other effects negatively? Even if my skills help each other, do they encourage the player to use their skills in a certain way? And other such questions of the sort. The way your character is made, I'd place any realm at random if it fits my team, use the third skill so Kaguya dies harder, and spam the second skill. Make her invulnerable when the situation calls for it. So all I'd do would be, use two skills just so they can be active, that being the first and third. Then one realm I'd randomly place based on the team I have and likely never change it. Spam the second skill forever. Unless Kaguya needs to go invulnerable. So all it comes down to, as a player, I have two options when using her after setting up the permanent skills. Deal damage. Or don't and become invulnerable IF that even benefits you. If I didn't, I'll just set them up and forget about them for the rest of the game. That's the efficient way to use them. But that's not a fun way to use them. You'd not think at all about what you are doing.
Thank you for your overly descriptive feedback, appreciated! Let me answer as Im reading:
My post appeals totally fine, however you can open the character in imgur as well if you are having problems reading. Yes, I may be having problems with wording as Im not a native english speaker! I totally forgot to add that "turns" into the text, sorry about that! Will fix the current version ASAP ^^ As fas as I know, skills can either reflect other skills onto random characters or onto the user, thats why the wording "reflected BACK".

Copied: Also, the third skill is unclear. Is it permanent? The first effect sounds like it could last a single turn given the wording, but its not. Tell me if this accurately describes the skill: Permanently, each time a new enemy skill is used on Kaguya, she will ignore all enemy skills for 1 turn. Now, if she is meant to ignore the skill on the turn it is used, that wording is accurate. If she is meant to ignore the skill the turn afterwards, say "the turn afterwards" instead of "For 1 turn". Because if she ignores any skill on the first turn it is used on her, any character that has damaging skill not lasting more than a turn on her, cannot ever defeat her.
-- No it doesnt accurately describes the skill, it means that if she is targeted, she is gonna ignore skills for 1 turn. Effect ends afterwards. However, not being targeted by any skill allows her to use it again to grant invulnerability effect for 1 turn instead. Wont replay to second skill you are asking as there is newer version live.

"When you say all allies and enemies, do you mean Kaguya too?" -- No, it clearly says enemies and allies only.
Sure, I might replace chakra gain by lets say healing for 5 health each turn.

Copied: What I'm saying is that you're not asking yourself these questions: Does having this effect, help my other skills? If I use my character's skills together or in a certain order, does that help the character work towards a strategy? Do the effects I have in the character impact their other effects negatively? Even if my skills help each other, do they encourage the player to use their skills in a certain way? And other such questions of the sort.
-- Im just a humble servant, trying to be creative here and there. Although it might not be all the time, Im rying to be as creative as possible when making most of the chars. Hope your words are not based off of this character only.

I tried to make apparently one of the strongest characters not that OP but more casually built. Since that I have changed the Realms you are talking much about so I suggest you checking the current version alongside other characters if you are interested. I would like people to point of mistake and even good work when it comes to it like you, glad someone literate like you gave such a rich feedback.

Thank you once again for reading the character and giving a good criticism :)
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Re: FINAL ROUND - Otsutsuki Kaguya (S) by Jadano

Post: # 46899Post Zank
April 12, 2020 15:06:40

jadano wrote:
April 12, 2020 12:43:11
As fas as I know, skills can either reflect other skills onto random characters or onto the user, thats why the wording "reflected BACK".
The current definition is this:

Image

Given the fact that Hidan can just reflect his skills onto another enemy, contrary to the definition, I understand why you worded it that why, since Hidan is proof the definition is wrong. I only remembered the definition for a second there, not how the effect was actually being used. Reflected back can still be a little vague. I'd change it to "Reflected onto Kaguya".
jadano wrote:
April 12, 2020 12:43:11
No it doesnt accurately describes the skill, it means that if she is targeted, she is gonna ignore skills for 1 turn. Effect ends afterwards. However, not being targeted by any skill allows her to use it again to grant invulnerability effect for 1 turn instead. Wont replay to second skill you are asking as there is newer version live.
There's many misleading parts for that skill then. The first effect doesn't have a duration for example. I don't mean that you don't state how many turns you ignore a skill, but rather, how many turns whenever a new skill is used on Kaguya she can activate the ignore effect. So you kind of need to say something like this: "This turn, if a new enemy skill is used on Kaguya, she ignores every skill for 1 turn."

Then if you intended the third skill to be usable despite being on cooldown only when the ignore effect does not occur, continue with this: "This turn, if a new enemy skill is used on Kaguya, she ignores every skill for 1 turn and if otherwise, Kaguya can next turn use this skill, despite being on cooldown, to become invulnerable for 1 turn." You don't really mention that currently. The way it is phrased you assume it is permanent and the reason she can become invulnerable she can become invulnerable while that skill is active would be because it always is.

There's also the fact it is Action. I guess it makes sense now that maybe you wanted to build a way in which you can stop her from ignoring a skill by stunning her. But Action is a class that is used for skills that last multiple turns. If a skill lasts just one turn, it cannot be interrupted, because at the very least the way it was coded in the previous game, Action skills applied Instant effects for 1 turn each turn they were not interrupted. Since the sskill lasts 1 turn, there is no effect to interrupt, since it has already been applied. That skill does technically last a single turn, unless no skill is used on her. Scenario in which that skill would not get interrupted, by the sheer virtue that, no skill is used on her. You can classify it as Control however. Any effect can be cancelled at any point if Control. Action is just a class that mechanically requires a skill to last more than 1 turn, because of how it is coded, because otherwise it acts just like an instant skill that lasts 1 turn.
jadano wrote:
April 12, 2020 12:43:11
Im just a humble servant, trying to be creative here and there. Although it might not be all the time, Im rying to be as creative as possible when making most of the chars. Hope your words are not based off of this character only.

I tried to make apparently one of the strongest characters not that OP but more casually built. Since that I have changed the Realms you are talking much about so I suggest you checking the current version alongside other characters if you are interested. I would like people to point of mistake and even good work when it comes to it like you, glad someone literate like you gave such a rich feedback.

Thank you once again for reading the character and giving a good criticism :)
I have taken a quick look at your other recent characters when I made that statement. You also forgot to edit Kaguya in this topic. You only replaced her in your showcase.

Look, typically when people try to be more creative or strive to be creative first and foremost, it doesn't mean they end up being creative or doing a better character. What typically ends up happening is one of the following two things: 1. They end up adding more and more effects to the character and/or lots of conditions under which the skill behaves differently. That or 2. They try to implement a new type of effect that is accurate to the anime, but without thinking how healthy it would be if implemented into the game or if they can do the same thing with effects that already exist.

Trying to make a character more out of the norm does not make it better and typically ends up being self sabotaging, because instead of making something that is indeed unique through the way it works, it instead ends up having a lot of effects for no reason, or having effects the character has no use for, or actively make the game worse. Don't try to be creative. You'll end up being creative by default. It isn't something you should actively think about. Each time you make something, without even thinking about it, you'll try to do something different than what you did so far. You will accidentally end up being creative. It's a passive effort.

Instead, what you should focus on is having the character have some strategy they work towards. Look back at the questions I've given as examples for what you should be asking yourself when making a design. Apply them to the changes you've made to the realms.

Has adding/changing these effects helped my other skills?
If I use my character's skills together or in a certain order, does that help the character work towards a strategy? Do the effects I have in the character impact their other effects negatively?
Even if my skills help each other, do they encourage the player to use their skills in a certain way?

You'll see that those changes, do not really change the answer to these questions. They are just longer effects. They're not better or worse, even though they bring more grammatical mistakes, unfortunately. They're just effects that continue to still not play a role into Kaguya's other skills or help Kaguya have a playstyle of her own.

Don't think of each skill individually. Think of how they can be used together and how it can help a character achieve some strategy or goal.

I don't really mind reading more of your characters, but they're very similar in execution even though they have different effects, so I'd just be reiterating the same feedback plenty of times, and I don't think that'd be helpful for any of us. Still, if you have any specific character you figure would make this feedback easier to process, you can ask me to read it.
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Re: FINAL ROUND - Otsutsuki Kaguya (S) by Jadano

Post: # 46906Post jadano
April 12, 2020 15:42:33

Zank wrote:
April 12, 2020 15:06:40
jadano wrote:
April 12, 2020 12:43:11
As fas as I know, skills can either reflect other skills onto random characters or onto the user, thats why the wording "reflected BACK".
The current definition is this:

Image

Given the fact that Hidan can just reflect his skills onto another enemy, contrary to the definition, I understand why you worded it that why, since Hidan is proof the definition is wrong. I only remembered the definition for a second there, not how the effect was actually being used. Reflected back can still be a little vague. I'd change it to "Reflected onto Kaguya".
jadano wrote:
April 12, 2020 12:43:11
No it doesnt accurately describes the skill, it means that if she is targeted, she is gonna ignore skills for 1 turn. Effect ends afterwards. However, not being targeted by any skill allows her to use it again to grant invulnerability effect for 1 turn instead. Wont replay to second skill you are asking as there is newer version live.
There's many misleading parts for that skill then. The first effect doesn't have a duration for example. I don't mean that you don't state how many turns you ignore a skill, but rather, how many turns whenever a new skill is used on Kaguya she can activate the ignore effect. So you kind of need to say something like this: "This turn, if a new enemy skill is used on Kaguya, she ignores every skill for 1 turn."

Then if you intended the third skill to be usable despite being on cooldown only when the ignore effect does not occur, continue with this: "This turn, if a new enemy skill is used on Kaguya, she ignores every skill for 1 turn and if otherwise, Kaguya can next turn use this skill, despite being on cooldown, to become invulnerable for 1 turn." You don't really mention that currently. The way it is phrased you assume it is permanent and the reason she can become invulnerable she can become invulnerable while that skill is active would be because it always is.

There's also the fact it is Action. I guess it makes sense now that maybe you wanted to build a way in which you can stop her from ignoring a skill by stunning her. But Action is a class that is used for skills that last multiple turns. If a skill lasts just one turn, it cannot be interrupted, because at the very least the way it was coded in the previous game, Action skills applied Instant effects for 1 turn each turn they were not interrupted. Since the sskill lasts 1 turn, there is no effect to interrupt, since it has already been applied. That skill does technically last a single turn, unless no skill is used on her. Scenario in which that skill would not get interrupted, by the sheer virtue that, no skill is used on her. You can classify it as Control however. Any effect can be cancelled at any point if Control. Action is just a class that mechanically requires a skill to last more than 1 turn, because of how it is coded, because otherwise it acts just like an instant skill that lasts 1 turn.
jadano wrote:
April 12, 2020 12:43:11
Im just a humble servant, trying to be creative here and there. Although it might not be all the time, Im rying to be as creative as possible when making most of the chars. Hope your words are not based off of this character only.

I tried to make apparently one of the strongest characters not that OP but more casually built. Since that I have changed the Realms you are talking much about so I suggest you checking the current version alongside other characters if you are interested. I would like people to point of mistake and even good work when it comes to it like you, glad someone literate like you gave such a rich feedback.

Thank you once again for reading the character and giving a good criticism :)
I have taken a quick look at your other recent characters when I made that statement. You also forgot to edit Kaguya in this topic. You only replaced her in your showcase.

Look, typically when people try to be more creative or strive to be creative first and foremost, it doesn't mean they end up being creative or doing a better character. What typically ends up happening is one of the following two things: 1. They end up adding more and more effects to the character and/or lots of conditions under which the skill behaves differently. That or 2. They try to implement a new type of effect that is accurate to the anime, but without thinking how healthy it would be if implemented into the game or if they can do the same thing with effects that already exist.

Trying to make a character more out of the norm does not make it better and typically ends up being self sabotaging, because instead of making something that is indeed unique through the way it works, it instead ends up having a lot of effects for no reason, or having effects the character has no use for, or actively make the game worse. Don't try to be creative. You'll end up being creative by default. It isn't something you should actively think about. Each time you make something, without even thinking about it, you'll try to do something different than what you did so far. You will accidentally end up being creative. It's a passive effort.

Instead, what you should focus on is having the character have some strategy they work towards. Look back at the questions I've given as examples for what you should be asking yourself when making a design. Apply them to the changes you've made to the realms.

Has adding/changing these effects helped my other skills?
If I use my character's skills together or in a certain order, does that help the character work towards a strategy? Do the effects I have in the character impact their other effects negatively?
Even if my skills help each other, do they encourage the player to use their skills in a certain way?

You'll see that those changes, do not really change the answer to these questions. They are just longer effects. They're not better or worse, even though they bring more grammatical mistakes, unfortunately. They're just effects that continue to still not play a role into Kaguya's other skills or help Kaguya have a playstyle of her own.

Don't think of each skill individually. Think of how they can be used together and how it can help a character achieve some strategy or goal.

I don't really mind reading more of your characters, but they're very similar in execution even though they have different effects, so I'd just be reiterating the same feedback plenty of times, and I don't think that'd be helpful for any of us. Still, if you have any specific character you figure would make this feedback easier to process, you can ask me to read it.
Third skill lasts until triggered, thus Action. This post is not actual anymore so no change here. Once again Im thankful or your response, I will try being less creative as you suggest.
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